...the Obligatory SF 49er Cheerleader

No game today, but that's no reason to give the ladies the day off!

Quote du jour

I have a really interesting political point of view, and it’s not always something I say too loud at dinner tables here, but you can’t go from a $2,000-a-night suite at La Mirage to a penitentiary and really understand it and come out a liberal. You can’t. I wouldn’t wish that experience on anyone else, but it was very, very, very educational for me and has informed my proclivities and politics ever since.

-Robert Downey, Jr.

A Little Saturday Night Music

Roger Miller - Where Have All the Average People Gone?

Best of the Web*

*…that I’ve seen all week!
Political/SocioEconomic

House Intel Benghazi Report A Lie Agreed Upon

The Ferguson Fraud

Leaked Emails Prove Obama Admin Intentionally Targeted Whistleblowing Reporter

Obama limo stripped at amnesty rally in NV?

Obama's Lawless Amnesty Changes America, And Not For The Better

SO WHY ALL THE FERGUSON HOOPLA?

Why Couldn't We Just Subsidize All 48M Uninsured People for $200/mo and Fully Repeal Obamacare?

Did Holder Cause the National Guard to be Kept From Ferguson?

BOMBS FOR BUMS




Videos

Obama Shocked by Suggestion Another Prez Might Selectively Enforce Tax Law

Andrew Klavan: How the Media See the Midterms

As God as my witness, I thought turkeys could fly

CAUGHT ON TAPE: #Ferguson Arsonist Torching Convenience Store on Monday Night

Angry Trapped Driver Pushes #Ferguson Protester Off I-5 For Making Him Late For Work





Culture

Homeschooling Parents Pepper-Sprayed and Tasered in Front of Kids

Cafe Press selling XXX “baby” clothing: “F*ck me like a porn star”

FERGUSON'S NATALIE DUBOSE: A Victim of "Social Justice"

The Today Show’s war on the truth- and on Darren Wilson

REVCOM.US: The Message is in the Signs

You Built This, Mr. President, Ferguson is all That is Wrong With Democrats

AMERICA: A Banana Republic Without the Bananas





Science and Technology

Google invests in new anti-shake spoon aimed to help Parkinson's sufferers

Taurus The Curve





Photoshops/Cartoons/Graphics

Cartoon of the Day – NRO Home page

Sunday Funnies

House of Gruber$

John Cox- KiRKWOOD, KiRKWOOD, KiRKWOOD, KiRKWOOD, KiRKWOOD, KiRKWOOD

Earl of Taint - It’s A Great Question And He’s Really Sorry He Asked

I’ve Always Wanted to See Doonesbury Get a Good Hippie-Punching


Reaganite's Sunday Funnies

Thanksgiving Funnies

Is this what I deserve?

Crystal skies - time lapse video

TGIFunnies





Linkfests:

LIVE AT FIVE: 11.26.14






Rule Five Roundup:
(While all Rule Five posts may be NSFW, I generally only flag the ones that are certainly NSFW)

90 Miles From Tyranny - Morning Mistress, Girls with Guns

American Power- Hot Models in Mesh

Smokin'

By Other Means - Cosplay

The Daley Gator – Daley Babes - Masika Kalysha, Tarah Paige, Sakara Ross, Nichelle Nichols, Markeshia Thomas, Mizuki Hoshina

Daily Mail –Victoria's Secret Angels

E.B.L. - Cheerleaders, more cheerleaders

Feral Irishman -Twosday
, Carrie Fisher
Good Monday Morning

Friday Night Babe -Stephanie Szostak!

Good Stuff's Cyber World #166

Grumpy Patriot - Hannah Ferguson

It’s a Mad, Mad, Mad World -The Friday Pin Up

Knuckledraggin' My Life Away - Good Morning Girls

Pirates Cove - Sorta Blogless Sunday Pinup, If All You See…, If All You See…, If All You See…

Flowing Curves Of Beauty

PostalDog - Katy Perry

Randy's Roundtable - Cowboys cheerleader, more cheerleaders

Sex in Advertising - Got Milk?

The Last Tradition - Nicole Ricca

Theo Spark – Bedtime Totty, Bedtime Totty, Teatime Totty, Teatime Totty, Bath night, Teatime Totty, Bedtime Totty

The Other McCain- Rule Five Sunday


Vintage Babe of the Week – Thanksgiving!

Rule 5 Woodsterman Style

...and the obligatory 49'er cheerleader, and her friend


Use the comments as an open thread on any of these topics. Please send links of news, commentary, choice humor or Rule Fivage to: Proof.Positive@Hotmail.com

Quote du jour

Mr. Obama: US "influence" isn't predicated on controlling every thing. It's built on leaders who keep their word. You didn't build that.

-Proof

Friday Night Babe

Tonight's FNB* is Stephanie Szostak!

(*a.k.a. Rule Five Friday)

Quote du jour

"The taxpayer: That's someone who works for the federal government but doesn't have to take the civil service examination."

- Ronald W. Reagan

Vintage Babe of the Week

Tonight's Vintage Babes* are in a Thanksgiving theme!
(*a.k.a. Rule Five)

7-4 SF 49er's vs. 7-4 Seattle Seahawks

Go Niners!

Update: Seahawks 19, Niners 3

Happy Thanksgiving!

Be thankful for the good times, and that the bad times aren't any worse than they are.

Quote du jour

Crazy thought here; next time you have a controversial announcement to make, do it at 7 a.m.; the hooligans are still sleeping.

-Jim Geraghty, on the Ferguson aftermath

Separated at Birth?

The Sky is Falling Five Parts per Billion at a Time

When the EPA was started, we didn't have the technology to study things that small. Now, the arrogant bureaucrats at the EPA mandate unreasonable regulations based on unrealistic expectations.

Has the EPA outlived its usefulness?

Medal of Honor

Captain Roger Hugh C. Donlon

Citation:

For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty while defending a U.S. military installation against a fierce attack by hostile forces. Capt. Donlon was serving as the commanding officer of the U.S. Army Special Forces Detachment A-726 at Camp Nam Dong when a reinforced Viet Cong battalion suddenly launched a full-scale, predawn attack on the camp. During the violent battle that ensued, lasting 5 hours and resulting in heavy casualties on both sides, Capt. Donlon directed the defense operations in the midst of an enemy barrage of mortar shells, falling grenades, and extremely heavy gunfire. Upon the initial onslaught, he swiftly marshaled his forces and ordered the removal of the needed ammunition from a blazing building. He then dashed through a hail of small arms and exploding hand grenades to abort a breach of the main gate. En route to this position he detected an enemy demolition team of 3 in the proximity of the main gate and quickly annihilated them. Although exposed to the intense grenade attack, he then succeeded in reaching a 60mm mortar position despite sustaining a severe stomach wound as he was within 5 yards of the gun pit. When he discovered that most of the men in this gunpit were also wounded, he completely disregarded his own injury, directed their withdrawal to a location 30 meters away, and again risked his life by remaining behind and covering the movement with the utmost effectiveness. Noticing that his team sergeant was unable to evacuate the gun pit he crawled toward him and, while dragging the fallen soldier out of the gunpit, an enemy mortar exploded and inflicted a wound in Capt. Donlon's left shoulder. Although suffering from multiple wounds, he carried the abandoned 60mm mortar weapon to a new location 30 meters away where he found 3 wounded defenders. After administering first aid and encouragement to these men, he left the weapon with them, headed toward another position, and retrieved a 57mm recoilless rifle. Then with great courage and coolness under fire, he returned to the abandoned gun pit, evacuated ammunition for the 2 weapons, and while crawling and dragging the urgently needed ammunition, received a third wound on his leg by an enemy hand grenade. Despite his critical physical condition, he again crawled 175 meters to an 81mm mortar position and directed firing operations which protected the seriously threatened east sector of the camp. He then moved to an eastern 60mm mortar position and upon determining that the vicious enemy assault had weakened, crawled back to the gun pit with the 60mm mortar, set it up for defensive operations, and turned it over to 2 defenders with minor wounds. Without hesitation, he left this sheltered position, and moved from position to position around the beleaguered perimeter while hurling hand grenades at the enemy and inspiring his men to superhuman effort. As he bravely continued to move around the perimeter, a mortar shell exploded, wounding him in the face and body. As the long awaited daylight brought defeat to the enemy forces and their retreat back to the jungle leaving behind 54 of their dead, many weapons, and grenades, Capt. Donlon immediately reorganized his defenses and administered first aid to the wounded. His dynamic leadership, fortitude, and valiant efforts inspired not only the American personnel but the friendly Vietnamese defenders as well and resulted in the successful defense of the camp. Capt. Donlon's extraordinary heroism, at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty are in the highest traditions of the U.S. Army and reflect great credit upon himself and the Armed Forces of his country.

Capt. Donlon: We humbly salute you and thank you for your service.



Hat tip Home of Heroes

There are fewer than a hundrehttp://www.blogger.com/img/blank.gifd living MoH recipients today. Their names and their stories should not be forgotten. My mission is to honor one of those heroes here each week, and salute them for their courage and sacrifice. In the words of John Fitzgerald Kennedy:

“A nation reveals itself not only by the men it produces, but also by the men it honors; the men it remembers.”

Quote du jour

A good chef doesn't have to invent salt.

-John Cox

Seasons Greetings from Ferguson

Sex in Advertising

For all you connoisseurs of advertising...




I may not be exactly sure what she's selling, but, I'm pretty sure I'm in the market!

Mr. President: There is No 'Shot Clock' in the Constitution

President Obama and his sycophantic supporters have made the argument ad nauseum, that since the House failed to pass a certain Senate bill, within a certain amount of time, that President Obama was free to act on his own to unilaterally "fix" the immigration problem. Conservatives, however, keep bringing this "Constitution" thingy into the argument.

Where in the Constitution does it say that any particular piece of legislation passed in the Senate must be voted on in the House within a certain amount of time, or the President gets a free pass to write his own legislation? Moreover, all the faux indignation and self righteous intonation of "two whole years", "seventeen months*", or "514 days", since the Senate passed an immigration bill, completely overlooks the fact that the House did pass a number of immigration reform bills which Senator Harry Reid (Dimbulb- Searchlight) refused to bring up for a vote in the US Senate. The fact that your opponents will not necessarily vote on a bill they disagree with,  also does not give you carte blanche to do whatever you please.

Even though there is no "shot clock", "pass them or else" time limit on Senate bills, you'd think that sooner or later, the US Senate might get around to actually passing a budget. The Senate hasn't passed a budget since 2009. (That's 1851 days for all you anally retentive, math impaired Democrats). Where was the indignation over this?  Beuller?   Beuller??

And yet, and yet...mirabile dictu! I have not heard a single Republican leader tell us that because the Senate has failed to pass a budget in over five years, that they get a free pass to impose their will upon the nation!

We now return you to the relentless coverage of rioting in Ferguson by those protestors who believe that nothing says 'I want to see justice done' like burning down someone else's business and stealing someone else's stuff.


* We'll forgive math impaired Democrats for not knowing that "two years" and "seventeen months" are not the same!

Update: (Of sorts) Through some glitch in Disqus (?) some of your comments come to me as

Proof Positive: Herr Präsident: Es gibt keine 'Schuss Clock "in der Verfassung

Just in case you were wondering how my headline translates into German...

Original art by John Cox. More at John Cox Art

Quote du jour

The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' (I found it!) but 'That's funny ...'

-Isaac Asimov

Quote du jour

But I think it would be a mistake to think my Dad’s wisdom and his humor were different facets of his personality. For him, “humor” and “wisdom” were different words for the same thing. After all, a sense of humor is merely the ability to see connections between things we haven’t noticed before (while laughter is what we do when we realize that those connections should have been obvious all along). Is wisdom really such a different thing?

-Jonah Goldberg

6-4 SF 49'ers vs. 3-7 Politically Incorrect Washington Team Which Shall Remain Nameless

Go Niners!

Update: Final: overcoming a fourth qtr. deficit: SF 17, Redskins 13

Quote du jour

“Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views.”

-William F. Buckley, Jr.

A Bronze Star for a Bionic Marine

Capt. Derek Herrera walked to the stage to receive his Bronze Star with a combat "V". The citation was given after the patrol he was leading came under heavy fire in Afghanistan in 2012, inspiring his men to acts of heroism as he directed the efforts to save the lives of patrol, even as he received treatment for the bullets that smashed his spine and collapsed his left lung.

Captain Herrera was paralyzed from the waist down. He has remained on active duty, undergoing rehab and learning to use a bionic exoskeleton known as ReWalk, so that he could end his career in the Marines "standing on his own, as he did when he joined the Marines". Captain Herrera will leave active duty, standing tall, on November 30th.

Semper Fi, Captain Herrera!

A Little Saturday Night Music

Lady Antebellum - Need You Now

November 22, 1963 - In Remembrance

From the archives (updated):



Today marks the 51st. anniversary of the passing of a great man. One who left his mark on his country and his culture. One who is still quoted to this day. On November 22, 1963, the world little noted his passing in the shock and outpouring of grief over the assassination of JFK. That man was Clive Staple Lewis…oddly enough, like JFK, ”Jack” to his friends.

C. S. Lewis, author of The Screwtape Letters, Mere Christianity and The Chronicles of Narnia, was a contemporary and friend of J. R. R. Tolkien. He was also an atheist who came to Christianity, in his own words, “kicking and screaming”, who became one of its strongest apologists.

You must picture me alone in that room in Magdalen, night after night, feeling, whenever my mind lifted even for a second from my work, the steady, unrelenting approach of Him whom I so earnestly desired not to meet. That which I greatly feared had at last come upon me. In the Trinity Term of 1929 I gave in, and admitted that God was God, and knelt and prayed: perhaps, that night, the most dejected and reluctant convert in all England.

-Surprised by Joy

His books have been translated into dozens of languages and sold millions of copies over the years. Anthony Hopkins portrayed him in the movie Shadowlands (1993), the story of his romance with American poet Joy Gresham, who died of cancer a mere handful of years after they met.

His life was rich and varied. His sorrows deep and vast. His legacy is enduring.

In our remembrance of those who passed this day, one might do well to remember what can be accomplished with just a pair of Jacks!

Best of the Web*

*…that I’ve seen all week!
Political/SocioEconomic


Three Biggest "If You Like Your Doctor" Moments In Obama's Immigration Speech

More evidence that Obama doesn't have a clue about basic economics: Impact of the Keystone XL pipeline on gas prices

Videos

Brit Hume: the Mindset of Progressives, Succinctly & Perfectly in Under 30 Seconds

All of #GruberGate in Two Minutes

Melissa Francis silenced on CNBC during Obamacare debates


Culture

My How the Tiny Have Fallen



Science and Technology

China Aggressively Tests New Anti-Satellite Weapons as Obama Unilaterally Disarms America



Photoshops/Cartoons/Graphics

Cartoon of the Day – NRO Home page

Flopping Aces -Sunday Funnies

The Left: Creating Brilliant Communist Utopias Since 1917

John Cox- KiRKWOOD, KiRKWOOD, KiRKWOOD, KiRKWOOD, KiRKWOOD, KiRKWOOD, KiRKWOOD, KiRKWOOD

Earl of Taint - Obama: “We Paid Gruber To Do Nothing”, They’re Illegal, Not Stupid

Reaganite's Sunday Funnies






Linkfests:

The Paste -A Poor Mans Drudge Report....

Deport Kardashians to Armenia

LIVE AT EIGHT: 11.21.14





Rule Five Roundup:
(While all Rule Five posts may be NSFW, I generally only flag the ones that are certainly NSFW)

90 Miles From Tyranny - Morning Mistress, Girls with Guns

American Power- Adriana Lima Screencaps for Pirelli Calendar, Rose McGowan for Flaunt magazine

Friday Hotness

#ShirtGate Rule 5: Chicks in Space!

By Other Means - Cosplay

The Daley Gator – Daley Babes - Meredith Hagner, Mari Touno, Jessi Malay, Camille Guaty, Jessica Marais, Mari Tuono

Daily Mail –Roselyn Sanchez stuns in plunging sheer gown that exposes every inch of her flawless figure


E.B.L. - Space exploration, Sexism, Feminism and Fashion, Ariana Savalas

Good Monday Morning

Friday Night Babe- Jenna Dewan


Good Stuff's Cyber World #165

Grumpy Patriot - Lauren Ashley

It’s a Mad, Mad, Mad World -The Friday Pin Up

Knuckledraggin' My Life Away - Good Morning Girl

Pirates Cove - Sorta Blogless Sunday Pinup, If All You See…, If All You See…


Flowing Curves Of Beauty

Randy's Roundtable - Cowboys cheerleaders

Sex in Advertising -Victoria's Secret (video)

The Last Tradition - Checkey Beckford

Theo Spark – Teatime Totty, Bath Night, Teatime Totty, Bedtime Totty

The Other McCain- Rule Five Monday


Vintage Babe of the Week – Sheila Ryan


Rule 5 Woodsterman Style

Your Crazy Uncle Bubba - Leg Day

...and the obligatory 49'er cheerleader


Use the comments as an open thread on any of these topics. Please send links of news, commentary, choice humor or Rule Fivage to: Proof.Positive@Hotmail.com

Quote du jour

“To be a Christian means to forgive the inexcusable because God has forgiven the inexcusable in you.”

― C.S. Lewis

Friday Night Babe

Tonight's FNB* is Jenna Dewan!

(*a.k.a. Rule Five Friday)

Ten Buck Friday Rides Again

Ten Buck Friday was a success in seeing a majority of Republicans elected to the Senate and Harry Reid being relegated back to the Recycling Bin of History.

But there is one Senate race still undecided in Louisiana and that's our man Bill Cassidy against Mary "I live in Washington, D.C. but I list my residence as my parents' basement in LA so I can vote here" Landrieu.

A runoff means more campaigning, more advertising and more expenses. While it is true that the DSCC has officially withdrawn their ad buys for their dubious candidate, I'm sure there will be a host of surrogates trying to raise money for poor Mary, so she doesn't have to go out and get a real job. (And maybe really move in with her parents this time!)

So, I'm sure there will be tons of breathless fundraising emails about how Republicans eat babies and that's why the want to ban all forms of birth control, and, BTW, did you know they want to replace the national anthem with Tony Orlando's "Knock Three Times"? Crazy!

All of the sudden, after sitting on her hands for six years, Mary Landfill is a crusader for the Keystone XL pipeline. Not for getting it passed necessarily, but for bring it to a vote that she hopes will not sustain her president's veto.

First of all, let me congratulate all of you for kicking Harry Reid's keister to the curb. Well done! And, unlike most politicians, I hate to keep coming back to you for money, so I promise, this is the last time!

Think of the nice warm schadenfreude feeling you got when Harry Reid was demoted. Now think of how warm and fuzzy you'll feel going into the holidays, if we give Mary Landrieu her just desserts as well?

Let's go the the well one last time before the holidays start taking up our time and energy, before the December runoff, and give an early present to Bill Cassidy (and yourself) of a larger majority in the US Senate.

Think how much happier Barack Obama will be at the prospect of governing in a bi-partisan manner. Actually, think of how much damage from the last six years needs to be undone over Barack Obama's vetoes and objections.

Just ten more bucks. It's what we honorary Koch brothers do.

You can contribute to Bill here.

And visit Our Fellow Ten Buck Friday bloggers:


Adrienne's Corner

Fishersville Mike

For God, Family, and Country

Laughing Conservative

Left Coast Rebel

Mind Numbed Robot

Polination

Political Clown Parade

Proof Positive

Texas Conservative News

Theo Spark

Wyblog

Twitter: #TenBuckFriday

Quote du jour

“God Almighty has set before me two great objects: the suppression of the slave trade and the reformation of manners.”

-William Wilberforce

Time's Person of the Year?

Well, he has gone from obscurity to You Tube phenomenon in record time. He's quoted by politicians of both major political parties and his name has become a verb overnight: Jonathan Gruber, Mr. Transparency is our choice for Time's Person of the Year award.

Vintage Babe of the Week

Tonight's Vintage Babe* is Sheila Ryan!
(*a.k.a. Rule Five)

Quote du jour

"Technology is anything that wasn't around when you were born."

- Alan Kay

What if Obama Had Been President During the Civil Rights Movement?

Statement by President Barack Obama on Attack in Selma, AL

Source: WH, 11-18-1962

I strongly condemn today’s terrorist attack, the burning of a black church in Selma, which killed four innocent people, and injured several more. There is and can be no justification for such attacks against innocent civilians. The thoughts and prayers of the American people are with the victims and families of all those who were killed and injured in this horrific attack and in other recent violence. At this sensitive moment in Selma, it is all the more important for blacks and Klan leaders and ordinary citizens to work cooperatively together to lower tensions, reject violence, and seek a path forward towards peace.

Fortunately, our leaders back then did not suffer under a sense of false moral equivalency.

Medal of Honor

Staff Sergeant Drew Dennis Dix

Citation:

For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity in action at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty. S/Sgt. Dix distinguished himself by exceptional heroism while serving as a unit adviser. Two heavily armed Viet Cong battalions attacked the Province capital city of Chau Phu resulting in the complete breakdown and fragmentation of the defenses of the city. S/Sgt. Dix, with a patrol of Vietnamese soldiers, was recalled to assist in the defense of Chau Phu. Learning that a nurse was trapped in a house near the center of the city, S/Sgt. Dix organized a relief force, successfully rescued the nurse, and returned her to the safety of the Tactical Operations Center. Being informed of other trapped civilians within the city, S/Sgt. Dix voluntarily led another force to rescue 8 civilian employees located in a building which was under heavy mortar and small-arms fire. S/Sgt. Dix then returned to the center of the city. Upon approaching a building, he was subjected to intense automatic rifle and machinegun fire from an unknown number of Viet Cong. He personally assaulted the building, killing 6 Viet Cong, and rescuing 2 Filipinos. The following day S/Sgt. Dix, still on his own volition, assembled a 20-man force and though under intense enemy fire cleared the Viet Cong out of the hotel, theater, and other adjacent buildings within the city. During this portion of the attack, Army Republic of Vietnam soldiers inspired by the heroism and success of S/Sgt. Dix, rallied and commenced firing upon the Viet Cong. S/Sgt. Dix captured 20 prisoners, including a high ranking Viet Cong official. He then attacked enemy troops who had entered the residence of the Deputy Province Chief and was successful in rescuing the official's wife and children. S/Sgt. Dix's personal heroic actions resulted in 14 confirmed Viet Cong killed in action and possibly 25 more, the capture of 20 prisoners, 15 weapons, and the rescue of the 14 United States and free world civilians. The heroism of S/Sgt. Dix was in the highest tradition and reflects great credit upon the U.S. Army.

S/Sgt. Dix: We humbly salute you and thank you for your service.



Hat tip Home of Heroes

There are fewer than a hundred living MoH recipients today. Their names and their stories should not be forgotten. My mission is to honor one of those heroes here each week, and salute them for their courage and sacrifice. In the words of John Fitzgerald Kennedy:

“A nation reveals itself not only by the men it produces, but also by the men it honors; the men it remembers.”

Nancy Pelosi: Hanging with her Peeps

Jon Stewart on Nancy Pelosi:



Original art by John Cox. More at John Cox Art

Happy National Ammo Day!

November 19 is National Ammo Day.

It is a nationwide BUYcott of ammunition. You buy ammunition. 100 Rounds a person.

Buy a box for me!

Quote du jour

"You haven't had enough coffee until you can thread a sewing machine while it's running."

-anonymous

Dispatches From the eXtra Loony Left

Barbara Boxer...Bless her heart!

“What does XL stand for? To me it stands for extra lethal,”

-Sen. Barbara Boxer (Dim Bulb-Calif.)

Barbara Boxer shows the same grasp of current events that she did in balancing her checkbook in the '90s. She took to the Senate floor today to warn all of us stupid (implied, thank you, Professor Gruber!) people of the potentially fatal dangers of Keystone XL.

One small problem with that. Keystone XL is an extension of the original Keystone pipeline that was built in 2009. (See: A Tale of Two Pipelines ) If the extension is "extra lethal", perhaps she would be so kind as to list all the fatalities caused by the original, still functioning pipeline?

Don't you think if there had been any problem at all with the original Keystone pipeline, that this information wouldn't be front and center in any discussions from Keystone XL's opponents?

In fact, the pipeline is safer for human life by reducing the possibilities of disastrous oil train wrecks and removes a multitude of oil tankers from the highways of this country, lowering the odds for highway fatalities or accidents which could cause contamination. There is even a net reduction of pollution, as a pipeline moves oil through the pipeline at lower energy costs than for trucks, trains or tankers.

We cannot, however, discount the possibility that Barbara Bouncer is one of the "stupid voters" that Professor Gruber refers to. He would know...